Turbo's replaced but...

Kellog13 · **Joined:** Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:21 pm **Posts:** 74

The turbo was replaced as promised but there's no improvement. That rattly grinding noise is still present at 2000-2500rpm, the dealer says they've heard this on 2 other crd's but no where as bad. I was given the opportunity to inspect the old turbo, I can report at 10,000 miles it was not coked up but mildly sooty, it looked normal for a TDI type engine. Does any one know if the bearings are the self aligning type? Both the boost and drive side have one connected solid shaft and you can push the impeller to the side of the housing and make it rub, but there was no indication of any rubbing of any kind anywhere. You can really only inspect a small portion of it as most of its hidden, but what I could see looked ok, it spun freely and true.
Now the bad part, the dealer has given up and they don't know what else to do. If I want any more fixed on my CRD, to call DC direct, they havn't looked at the tranny or stuttering yet( I can live with the stuttering, my Passat does it now and then, by the way it is a fuel thing for the record). I have a meeting next week with the manager of the dealership at which time I'll request a refund for my purchase. I know already, they'll laugh me out of Dodge....but I'm gonna try

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

I had the rattling noise also. It was extremely loud. Most of the noise was the wiring harness metal clips on top of the engine. It has metal clips that slide over a bolt, without a nut holding it down. When the turbo starts rattling, it causes the plastic warning harness metal clips to vibrate loudly on their mounting bolts. Get some metric nuts from a hardware store - I found some at Lowes - and install three of them on the 3 upright bolt until its tightened against the metal clips. It will greatly reduce the noise. After I did this, the noise level was less than half of what it used to be. It might reduce it enough to be liveable. It was with mine, of course, the power reduction flash eliminated the rest of the turbo bark.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:52 am

Ranger1 wrote:

I had the rattling noise also. It was extremely loud. Most of the noise was the wiring harness metal clips on top of the engine. It has metal clips that slide over a bolt, without a nut holding it down. When the turbo starts rattling, it causes the plastic warning harness metal clips to vibrate loudly on their mounting bolts. Get some metric nuts from a hardware store - I found some at Lowes - and install three of them on the 3 upright bolt until its tightened against the metal clips. It will greatly reduce the noise. After I did this, the noise level was less than half of what it used to be. It might reduce it enough to be liveable. It was with mine, of course, the power reduction flash eliminated the rest of the turbo bark.

I did this too after fighting them suckers off when I cleaned the MAP sensor. I think they were 6 mm.

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:05 am

Kellog13 wrote:

The turbo was replaced as promised but there's no improvement. That rattly grinding noise is still present at 2000-2500rpm, the dealer says they've heard this on 2 other crd's but no where as bad. I was given the opportunity to inspect the old turbo, I can report at 10,000 miles it was not coked up but mildly sooty, it looked normal for a TDI type engine. Does any one know if the bearings are the self aligning type? Both the boost and drive side have one connected solid shaft and you can push the impeller to the side of the housing and make it rub, but there was no indication of any rubbing of any kind anywhere. You can really only inspect a small portion of it as most of its hidden, but what I could see looked ok, it spun freely and true.
Now the bad part, the dealer has given up and they don't know what else to do. If I want any more fixed on my CRD, to call DC direct, they havn't looked at the tranny or stuttering yet( I can live with the stuttering, my Passat does it now and then, by the way it is a fuel thing for the record). I have a meeting next week with the manager of the dealership at which time I'll request a refund for my purchase. I know already, they'll laugh me out of Dodge....but I'm gonna try

A picture says a thousand words, a few pictures is a novel.
Post some pics here of the Turbo. If they kept it, go back and ask to see it and take pictures.

Kellog13 · **Joined:** Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:21 pm **Posts:** 74

Sorry Lou, turbo was shipped out. I returned the CRD the next day as they clamped the exhuast crooked, it was noisey and stinky! Well it's been about a week now with the new turbo, it's worse than before I'm sorry to say. It use to be it would only make the grindy, flappy sound under load going up hill. It now does it on demand in any gear except 1st (not enough load) at any incline. I took the SM for a drive, he acknowledges he hears it and its worse than before but doesn't have the foggiest what to do, and for that matter either do I. I have to say he's been pretty good through it all. Things we know, with #1 original turbo=grindy noise progressivly worsened to a known point. With #2 turbo installed, noise is there all the time but not as loud when throttle backed off. Two different turbo's and 2 different results. So for me I still say its turbo related. Does any one know how the vacum is controlled as when it just makes it through the grindy zone 2500rpm it feels that the engine is freed from some sort of obstruction.

Bovie · **Posted:** Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:09 am

How is Power threw all of this? If it is normal, that would lead me to belive that the turbo isn't the problem.

Could it be somthing else on the engine or in the compartment making the noise as the engine revs? I've seen some heat sheilding in a gas mercedes that came loose and made it sound like the engine was gonna fall apart.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:46 pm

If it running ok, I would start looking for missing bolts or other metal parts that may be loose. This turbo is surrounded by heat shields and there are metal lines close-by that if the were loose/rubbing could cause rattles at various rpms.

One last thing to check would be the coupler where the turbo connects to the exhaust. I can't see past the heat shields to know what DC is using for a coupler but most diesel turbos connect to the exhaust pipe with an expansion sleeve. Basically it's a pipe fit loosly inside another pipe with what looks like piston rings between them making the seal. These joints are notorious for rattling and leaking (which I occasionally smell inside my Jeep).

Ripster · **Posted:** Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:07 pm

The exhaust coupling is like on the cummins, a clamp around two rolled edges.

MACKJ · **Posted:** Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:27 pm

Ripster wrote:

The exhaust coupling is like on the cummins, a clamp around two rolled edges.

Yup, it is called a V-band clamp. Went through all that when I did my EGT gauge install....a real bugger to get back on and re-tension.

Kellog13 · **Joined:** Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:21 pm **Posts:** 74

When the engine is in the suspect range it feels like your riding the brakes. As soon as it hits 2500rpm and goes past, the noise stops and the vehicle/engine move more freely, like the brakes were just released. It is a subtle but noticable feeling. The noise on the other hand is louder the steeper the incline, and I notice it more at higher elevation.

Kellog13 · **Joined:** Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:21 pm **Posts:** 74

MACKJ wrote:

Ripster wrote:

The exhaust coupling is like on the cummins, a clamp around two rolled edges.

Yup, it is called a V-band clamp. Went through all that when I did my EGT gauge install....a real bugger to get back on and re-tension.

That's right, I drove 50 feet, turned at the next driveway back to the dealership as they clamped it cock-eyed and it was loud as hell and stinky from fumes. Funny thing is, they test drove it twice to say the new turbo is working??? It looks like a bugger.

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:34 am

Kellog13 wrote:

MACKJ wrote:

Ripster wrote:

The exhaust coupling is like on the cummins, a clamp around two rolled edges.

Yup, it is called a V-band clamp. Went through all that when I did my EGT gauge install....a real bugger to get back on and re-tension.

That's right, I drove 50 feet, turned at the next driveway back to the dealership as they clamped it cock-eyed and it was loud as hell and stinky from fumes. Funny thing is, they test drove it twice to say the new turbo is working??? It looks like a bugger.

Kellog13, what about the repair order that you got back? Do they list a part number for the replacement of the turbo?
The turbo that comes stock should be a Garrett Turbo with O.E.M Turbo code of 35242112G. That number should be stamped on the housing. Of course, DCX probably has their own internal part number for the turbo.
In addition, it might be worth asking the tech if they know if the turbo is new or a rebuilt.
I'm curious to what part number was listed on the Repair Order.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:12 pm

Kellog13 wrote:

The turbo was replaced as promised but there's no improvement. That rattly grinding noise is still present at 2000-2500rpm, the dealer says they've heard this on 2 other crd's but no where as bad. I was given the opportunity to inspect the old turbo, I can report at 10,000 miles it was not coked up but mildly sooty, it looked normal for a TDI type engine. Does any one know if the bearings are the self aligning type? Both the boost and drive side have one connected solid shaft and you can push the impeller to the side of the housing and make it rub, but there was no indication of any rubbing of any kind anywhere. You can really only inspect a small portion of it as most of its hidden, but what I could see looked ok, it spun freely and true.
Now the bad part, the dealer has given up and they don't know what else to do. If I want any more fixed on my CRD, to call DC direct, they havn't looked at the tranny or stuttering yet( I can live with the stuttering, my Passat does it now and then, by the way it is a fuel thing for the record). I have a meeting next week with the manager of the dealership at which time I'll request a refund for my purchase. I know already, they'll laugh me out of Dodge....but I'm gonna try

Could the noise be from the heat shield itself? It seems to be quite thin. Vibrating? It doesn't do it in Park. Only under a load.

Kellog13 · **Joined:** Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:21 pm **Posts:** 74

OK, here's the latest, its been in 6-7 times since I last posted. They thought it was the cat converter, nope. They put in Mopar Fuel Conditioner, nope( as if thats gonna fix anything). They insist I have to fill up at Chevron instead of shell, more additives they tell me. Now they swear the engine is gummed up and they want to "MotorVac" the engine as there is diesel Knock (predetonation), the fittings are on order, this is all coming from CHR engineering. There are 12,000 miles on this thing, its impossible to carbon this fast, I drive it aggresively and it has never smoked as far as diesels go. I need opinions about this and has anyone has an engine Motorvac'd?

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat May 19, 2007 7:39 am

Kellog13 wrote:

OK, here's the latest, its been in 6-7 times since I last posted. They thought it was the cat converter, nope. They put in Mopar Fuel Conditioner, nope( as if thats gonna fix anything). They insist I have to fill up at Chevron instead of shell, more additives they tell me. Now they swear the engine is gummed up and they want to "MotorVac" the engine as there is diesel Knock (predetonation), the fittings are on order, this is all coming from CHR engineering. There are 12,000 miles on this thing, its impossible to carbon this fast, I drive it aggresively and it has never smoked as far as diesels go. I need opinions about this and has anyone has an engine Motorvac'd?

If you are getting diesel predetonation, it can come from two sources:
1). Injector timing is off. They need to look at electronic control items (such as the crank position sensor may be loose or not alligned correctly).
2). Preignition caused by something combustible in your intake air (such as motor oil). It won't take a rocket scientist to figure this out. You already know this turbo passes oil which has contaminated the air intake plumbing.

This will be an interesting situation to watch. Actually sounds like DCX knows they may have an air intake crud deposit issue.

Kellog13 · **Joined:** Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:21 pm **Posts:** 74

Yes, interesting. The dealer has acknowleged that Engineering is aware of "gumming up" issues, but they attribute that to fuel quality? I feel this is the wrong direction and still firmly believe turbo management issue are the root cause. Keep in mind this whole thing started at 4000 miles, fuel issues are unlikly, we will see....

chadhargis · **Posted:** Sat May 19, 2007 1:22 pm

I can believe poor fuel quality could be the cause. With the EGR and CCV blowing gunk into the intake, it's a wonder the engine runs at all.

I've disabled the EGR via the ORM, and I'm running a provent. From what I can tell, things are staying very clean and I have no drivability issues. Fuel mileage is as expected and power is good.

I really can't complain at all about the quality of the CRD. It's a peach of a little engine.

Kellog13 · **Joined:** Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:21 pm **Posts:** 74

It's been almost 2 month's since I've posted with an additional 25 days in the shop. The engine has been motorvac'd 3 times by the dealer to decarbon the engine as Chry engineering insist the engine is gummed up. The dealership showed me the injectors and they have soot on them which is totaly normal for a diesel. The result is no difference. My dealer drove it 40 miles to a partner dealership as they have 2 diesel experts on staff, they motorvac it and still no change, everyone now agrees that the engine is clean and not carboned up. They get the tranny expert in for assesment and drive it up the mountain 6 times and conclude the metal to metal sound is the torque converter. They change the flex-plate, torque converter and pump, the result no change, metal to metal grind is still there. They attempt to change the drive axels with another jeep???? and see what happens, they didn't fit. The dealer has given up and attempted to give me the keys back and stated it's still on warrenty so drive it till something breaks and then we'll change the engine if that's the problem. I want no part of lets see what happens kind of thing and handed the keys back to them and said they can keep it to make a point even though I own it. I'm now in discussion with Chry headquarters so we'll see.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:50 pm

I just sold a Chevy S10 4.3l a couple of months ago it had gradually developed a terrible grinding noise as well. I could never locate it until it progressed to the point of rattling at idle. the problem was the cat material had broken lose inside the shell although there was no noticeable decrease in power. the solution was a large hammer to the side of the shell until it was half knocked in so no more rattling around in there. I hope that it is something as simple as this.

Turbo's replaced but...

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